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USA ahead - Saturn Return and beyond

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From: Patrick. (23 Jul 2010 05:40):  Krugman was predicting the real estate crash. He tends to be right.
From: Maggy van Krimpen. (16 Jul 2010 09:03):  Andy, interesting comments - of course planets have a physical side manifested perhaps in a civil war at times (using Pluto)....its also the planet of big business, multi-culturalism and tumultuous change. Marjorie predicted months ago between now and October huge shocks in the markets. Paul Krugman (a US economist and Nobel Prize winner) on CNN today predicted we are at the beginning of a third world depression.Today in the UK's Telegraph (Fed's Volte Face Sends the Dollar Tumbling) the article begins "Rarely have a few coded words in the minutes of the US Fed Reserve caused such an upheaval in the global currency system....."

Looks as though it is manifesting there most strongly (financially) at the moment. We're in new territory and its not a pretty sight.
From: Marjorie. (15 Jul 2010 14:03):  Hi I don't think a US Civil War looks likely. Agree we may be moving into a multi-power centre universe. The old days of global empires disappeared really with the UK, France etc finally letting go. Russia was the last of the land-hungry mobsters. So it's a different ball game nowadays and more a question of who has the economic superiority.
Plus Iraq and Afghanistan may well prove to be the end of 'gunboat diplomacy' - too expensive and too risky to go charging in to other countries either to sort perceived wrongs or as vengeance.
Two World Wars in the 20th century really did for the UK at the end of their glory days - bankrupted them, arguably for no good reason especially in WW1.
Global empires take a long time to sink into the swamp. But economic kingpins can go under faster .
From: Andy. (13 Jul 2010 15:10):  I personally think that what we're headed towards is a multi-polar world order. That means that there won't be a "top dog" necessarily, rather there will be multiple powers competing on a fairly equal level.

The US, despite all the troubles it will be going through, from a political, military, economic and social standpoint, will remain a major player in world affairs. It has far too many advantages going for it; the world's most sophisticated military, abundant and fertile farmlands, an advanced economy, and many others.

History shows that nations rarely fall rapidly from their pedestals. It happens over hundreds of years, not in a matter of 2-3 decades. What we're experiencing is a gradual decline from prominence. The next decade will only highlight that dynamic.

As for the prospect of civil war, I consider that a remote possibility. While some of these Pluto aspects are indeed heavy, they are also global in nature, suggesting a problem or crisis on that scope. I'm thinking more external warfare, perhaps a new land war in Asia.
From: sed. (13 Jul 2010 08:23):  I would also like to know who the next top dog will be.
From: Patrick. (12 Jul 2010 22:52):  The Pluto oppositions are very polarizing. Some at the NCGR conference were saying civil war, but i am too sag to believe that. The people on the right are upset that non white people and women have too much power. Losing power is a good thing. China looks like the new power to me. Maybe the Will of Heaven will change regimes if we are lucky.
From: Cecilia. (12 Jul 2010 17:06):  Marjorie-Please, which country is going to pick up once the USA is no longer the top dog super power. For example, Spain, Italy such as in Roman times, England, Portugal, China, etc.... have all had its hey day in super power glory, so which country would you see taking up the leadership role our global world. Thanks, Cecilia
From: Andy. (12 Jul 2010 01:02):  Excellent write up Marjorie!

Not exactly light hearted stuff though. Looks like we're going to see austerity, deep recession, and possibly a whiff of military rule?? The 2014 aspects especially look bleak.

Expect more wars designed to prop up the dollar as the world's reserve currency. Petrodollars are the key to the equation, so gunboat diplomacy (Pluto-Neptune square in 2011-12?) is a distinct possibility in the upcoming years.

In the long haul, American power will survive, but we will become something different, not better necessarily. Less democratic, more authoritarian I fear.

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